Interview: Gaynor Evelyn Sweeney
(Artist, Curator and Author)
Title: Art and Life
08 October 2018
Interviewer: How did your interest in
Art begin?
Artist: It has always featured in my
life since a child. In my family creativity has always been there. In
my extended family there is everything from Visual Artists,
Musicians, Singers, Dancers, Writers and more. We are not an affluent
family and just like any other, but creativity is something that runs
through all of us in one way or another. My Great-grandfather,
Charles Dalrymple-Kelly, I was told he was a Sculptor and worked on
many monumental buildings in his life.
My Father in his early years was a
Painter and worked as a Sign-Writer with his older brother while his
other brother was a Musician and Performer for a time. My Father
ended up while stationed abroad with the Scots Guard battalion and he
was assigned to be their Sign-Writer as part of his extra duties and
in addition produced some paintings he was commissioned to do. Like
most people whom have growing families the Arts market is tenuous at
the best of times and to survive to support their families took up
conventional jobs and jobs very hard working and physically
demanding. My Father ended up most of his working life in the
Chemical industry as a Boilerman.
My parents encouraged my siblings and I
to be creative and our Father when off work would sit and teach us
about the different methods in paintings and even lettering. The
creative persuasion was also with our Mother. She was into Arts and
Crafts and that interest she applied to make things for the home and
us. Anything she put her hand to naturally able to do and in turn
taught my siblings and I. So, creativity has always been there in
daily life in one way or another. My roots are Working Class and
still are and I am proud of that, as it gave me a strong work ethic
and to be independent. I am proud of my heritage and family, as they
are good people and I could not ask for better parents than I have.
As a child when my Father was working on new painting I would ask
could I sit by him and do some Art myself. He would smile and say
yes. I would get my paints and papers and sat on the floor close by
to him as he painted I would be scribbling away or painting myself. I
was the same with Mother. I would be engrossed watching her make
something and studying ever action she did and she would show me how
to do it.
I had a good upbringing from my parents
and I am proud of my family and proud being Working Class. Even
though I was told by some in the Arts once I was established I needed
to drop the perception of myself and heritage as Working Class and
deem myself Middle Class simply by their assumptions of social status
and Arts. I would not, as that to me would be a deception and I am
proud of where I come from and even more proud of my family. That
attitude I was confronted with in the Arts I did not appreciate and
considered elitist and if not more so a sham for any to adopt. I
would not ever accept, as it was like saying to me I should be
ashamed of where I come from and I am not. I come from a decent
family and ones who I would always prioritise before any in the
elite. I actually found that attitude of some in the Arts Market
insulting by such snobbery and class orientated.
Interviewer: When did your Professional
career start as an Artist and how did it come about?
Artist: I like most people in life had
many diverse jobs to keep a roof over my head and food on the table.
It was not until my late twenties I was trying to choose a career
change and exactly what I did not know during that period. I had
previously been commissioned as a Artist to paint portraits for
people, but it was not a full-time endeavour and my prior work was in
business administrations, both as a PA/Secretary and General Manager.
I actually hated the mundane nature of the job, but ended up more
than proficient at it that I could run circles around others. The
only reason I did was my coping strategy to throw myself into the job
and if I worked non-stop the monotony of it did not seem so bad. That
period came to a close though when something traumatic happened and
due to it being so extreme I actually became a recluse for several
years after that.
I had already had prior trauma before
in an earlier period in my life and managed to get through it, but
the next thing when another incident I literally in my twenties went
into shut down. I could not be near people I did not know. That
period in my twenties for me and my family was so extreme with the
duress it resulted in my Father to have a heart attack. That broke my
heart. My parents are wonderful people and the pain that was caused
us unjustified. Indeed, my Father is a man of strong principles and
very loving, caring and supportive man. It profoundly upset both my
parents and indeed myself and the whole family. During that time I
knew I had to get back to the living and do something with myself and
stop hiding, because that is what I was effectively doing. A recluse
in my mid-late twenties when most young people are setting their own
foot step in life. I hid not wanting to be away from my family's side
after being badly hurt again.
I suppose some people may refer to that
period in my life as a break down. It was more progressive where I
pulled back from many and not trusting any external to my family. To
try and keep my hand in on life I took up a Art History Degree with
the Open University. It allowed me to stay away from the outside
world and yet still try and do something with myself. During this
period I was active with my creative practice and started producing a
mass of new art work. Inside I still did not know what I wanted to do
and although filling my time with Art and at times again commissioned
I did not know if that is what I wanted. I had sought advice when
contemplating if I wanted to take up Buddhism fully and to enter a
temple permanently. I researched the subject in-depth and liaised
with the head of a temple in the UK. They were bemused by me when I
asked at what stage would I have to remove my hair, as my hair has
always been long. I was told I should duly consider that route, as it
was more apparent to them I was trying to runaway from what was
troubling me and I should learn to face it. That was the best advice
gave me.
I deliberated whether to join the Armed
Forces and even had the interview and everything. On the day I walked
out and my Father accompanied me I told him it was a mistake and not
the path for me. I realised it on the day when I looked about at
everyone in the Recruiting Offices and then gazed down at myself.
There was me with my hair up, a navy pencil skirt suit, high heels
and red nails and lipstick. Everything other than Armed Forces
material. So, what was I left with? What I had already been doing and
a common feature in my life since childhood. Art. The next thing my
health deteriorating and my family and I could not understand why. I
am not a small female, but shy six feet, so when I lose weight it is
noticed quickly. I was losing weight rapidly and blacking out and
having what appeared like Multiple Sclerosis symptoms. It was not
that of course, but after some time and seeing several Doctors,
Specialists and an array of medical tests and scans I was eventually
diagnosed with the Prolactinoma and Thyrotoxicosis.
When I was told the news of the
Prolactinoma, benign pituitary tumour, I did not get upset. My Mother
did and broke down crying. I told her not to cry and I would be more
than fine and the Specialist assured I would be. Not ever has that
upset me. My first Endocrinologist was of Egyptian heritage at the
local hospital and he was the Head of the department. One of the best
Doctors I have ever had. He explained it in laymen terms, so I
understood and there would be no worries. I had no reason to be
upset, as he and his department dealt with matters. After the
diagnosis that was a kick up the backside to me. I had to get back to
the living and stop hiding behind my family who always there for me.
Even though I had been still productive with Art and Distance
Learning Art History it was time I stepped from the shadows and from
under the wings of my parents. I was then over that period in my late
twenties to thirty. To make the shift from my mid-twenties becoming
short of a recluse I had to build up the courage to actually step out
alone and face the world. I decided it was to be Art fully my new
career path.
I enrolled for a Fine Art Degree with
Liverpool John Moores University. Actually going to the interview and
sitting there in front of people I did not know was a huge step for
me to be able to do and not that they knew nor realised, as I kept
secret how I had become and spent several years like a recluse and
only wanted to be with my family and trusted no other after the pain
and grief imposed on my family and I. I literally had to throw myself
in the deep end if I was to do it and make that step and grab the
bull by horns. I was determined. I had to break the shackles that had
formed so reticent to venture outside fearing to be hurt again badly.
I did and I went at it full steam ahead. That is not to say inside my
system was not racing. It was. Even leaving the house to get on
public transport was an exercise. I would close my eyes and focus on
my breath and heart to calm myself.
I was very adept at hiding how I felt
inside to other people about and would conceal I was literally having
a panic attack and taught myself how to stifle my own breath to
contain myself. I put in place so many coping strategies in life due
to much that had happened and all to the outside world I always
presented a face calm and composed and to keep secret how I had been
hurt in life. I threw myself into the Art Degree and my determination
only grew more and more. That defiance was always there anyway and I
was already exhibiting and organising exhibitions and more external
to the university long before I graduated. The degree to me was only
formality in academia. My focus as it went on was already beyond that
and I was hungry for life and impatient and wanted to do more and
more.
I suppose that compulsion formed with
what happened in life and then my twenties and to cause me to become
a recluse and by my early thirties in a sense trying to make up for
lost time. That sense of urgency to do more and more only compounded
when then there was a bereavement in the family and one that has not
ever been reconciled. It was after the news of that I went off on a
tangent. My former practice was Painting and Sculpture, but I shifted
to Digital Media and Performance Art interventions. The sadness in my
family surrounding that period was immense. My family member whom had
suffered the loss if I could have took away her pain I would have
done. I could not and I felt useless unable to ease her grief and the
only thing I could do was try and be there for support. Her children
to feel the impact of it. My parents were devastated. Our poor Mother
sobbed silent and our Father, whom is a typical man and not ever had
any of us seen him cry, disappeared into the back garden not to
distress any and hide his own tears at the tragic news.
As all that unfolding and to my own
life and Art I did go off the rails. For my first Performance Art
intervention I chose not to do something slight, but went all out. My
own body inside ill with the endocrine problems that at times impeded
frustrated me. I had a love hate relationship with my body. I would
have people compliment me and I would be polite smile and say thank
you, but to me it meant nothing. To the outside world my body looked
fine, but to me and the truth of my own illness at times undermining
me I despised, as I did not want to be stopped living life and not
even by my own body and medical conditions. So, then with the
bereavement in the family I started to question everything about life
more and more. Not I and nor any member family ever to hurt another
human being and yet all this happening and none of us could
understand why? I thought to myself always have I tried to do the
correct thing to how I was raised and yet all of this about happening
and not any of it our choice or making.
As consequence for my first Performance
Art intervention I did in the most extreme way I could and as typical
of me threw myself in the deep end. I chose to use my body that I
already had formed a love hate relationship with and to present it
next to the most iconic piece of canonised Art I possible could. The
Mona Lisa in the Louvre, France. My friends with me in France thought
I was joking at first when I told them what I intended to do. I was
not joking and meant it. To me it was about confronting contemporary
society in how they venerate something like the Mona Lisa that is
itself merely materialistic and to present flesh next to it of
something that is living and feels yet itself by nature
confrontational and a protest of kinds.
It is no different to such presentation
in flesh to declare here stands a living person of flesh and blood
and if not for exposition most would ignore and choose of that like
the Mona Lisa to protect. The attitudes of society similar to how
they venerate objects compared to life itself and like many of the
homeless they pass in the street and step over as if they do not
exist. It was not only of that why I did it, but it was also to
observe the dead body of the bereaved and it hit me how fleeting life
is and to the societal attitudes little worth it is given. That was
my first proper Live Art intervention. To disrobe in front of the
Mona Lisa and not with permission of the Louvre either. Many can not
work me out. As I will not go topless on beach when on holiday like
most do and yet I chose to do as I did for my first Performance Art
intervention.
Some assumed I did it to cause
controversy. Far from it. It was for all the said reasons to do with
my own life and much about that had happened. It was in essence how
life is considered nothing and objects are given greater value and
credence. Before that on an Art project I had been researching the
homeless. As I had before not ever been homeless I realised how can I
capture an essence of a subject when I have not even in part ever
experienced it. So, I chose to go and sleep rough and keep a diary. I
additionally went and interviewed people who support the homeless and
spoke to many homeless people. My peers, whom Artists, called me
insane and could not understand me going all out. I tried to explain
and said how could I know of what they experience if I did not try to
understand and experience even if but an element of what they do.
That experience opened my eyes to the truth and the suffering the
homeless endure.
I found out on the research of the
project the homeless range from children on the run through to men
whom are ex-Armed Forces. I learned how broken our society is and
since that project that was done nearly twenty years ago it has not
improved, but things have worsened with more people losing their
livelihoods, homes and to end up on the streets. That for a so-called
civilised society is disgraceful. Over the years I have done an array
of projects and not ever residing back to stop, but would no sooner
conclude one project, but restless and off on the next. It was during
this period I was then starting to be commissioned by institutions
and I received my first one before I even graduated. All the
influences in my life are much more than this by life experiences why
I choose to do as I do and too many to list here in one interview.
Interviewer: What projects and other
exhibitions have you done and of relevance to you?
Artist: Where do I start? It has been
to the main part non-stop in the early stages. I was being then
contracted and commissioned all over the place by many private and
public interests. I was invited to present work by Curators and
institutions. It was full on for many years to say the least. Not
only that, but within the framework still doing my own thing as well.
It was so busy I had little and no time for myself and my own
personal life. It became chaotic and no sooner one project finalised,
but off to the next and with some commissions crossing over.
Everything from London, New York,
Paris, Copenhagen and other international locations. Invited by
Curators to present work at Liverpool Biennial, Venice Biennial,
Performance Art Festival (USA), Hong Kong Biennial, Berlin Kunst
Salon, London Fashion Week and much more. I was tired a lot of the
time and it was like that for many years organising an array of
projects myself and therein commissioned and contracted for more on
top. It was so hectic my concept of time itself went out the window,
as it was no sooner awake each day, than showered, dressed and up and
out to do what I had to do. Arrive home, prepare what I had to for
the following day and then sleep to what little I achieved. I would
catch up on sleep while commuting at times, whether bus, taxi, train,
aeroplane.
When a window of opportunity as I had
an interest personally to social issues I would incorporate charity
initiatives and have done so many of them lost count. I had organised
initiatives to specifically target socially deprived areas, children
and disabled and to provide art materials and workshops. In addition
to that I have always had a passion for the ethos of National Health
Services as set down by Aneurin Bevan. I have always believed in the
value and principle of it very strongly and I always will. It is one
of the things this country, England, got correct. It was a post-war
flagship that other countries have emulated. Yet, now by 2018 it
upsets me that over these past couple of decades or so it is being
stripped at for profiteering interests at the expense of the public
purse and the nations health. I will not and can not ever agree with
that and nor can I agree with how it has become a tool for
politicization either where eugenics and euthanasia are ulterior
themes being imposed on it.
The Hippocratic Oath. An oath that
those of the Medical profession are meant to uphold ethical standards
to do with medicine and life. That to me are the foundations of
medicine and to the very histories and should always hold relevance
in professional Medical practice. My mere opinion, but one again I
feel strongly about. It is my strong values on this subject and
indeed the support I have been given by many in the Medical
profession why I took an added interest to do Art projects in
conjunction with many Medical institutions. These have ranged from
organising the donations of art work for permanent display in many
Medical departments. Auctioning of art work to raise funds for
hospitals and every penny went to the direct Medical cause on front
line services. Everything from Breast and Testicular cancer,
Diabetes, Emergency Department and more. I even encouraged members of
Staff, Public and Patients to engage in Art practice by donating Art
materials free and specifically as a focus to the patients in a
cathartic approach.
My interests in cross-disciplinary Arts
and Medicine did not stop there. As part of my own research for
several years pursued Genetics, Stem Cell Research and particularly
the ethics surrounding these subjects in a socio-cultural approach
and how it was impacting on contemporary society. I have done other
initiatives in Optical Engineering and many diverse themes in
contemporary Science and Technology. As the years went on I shifted
to more current themes and exploring the socio-political, cultural
and disciplines to more alternative modes of expression with a focus
to the body and significantly various outputs of Digital Media. Even
at times using the world wide web to present and broadcast before it
became the norm and standard it is now.
It is more in the past six years I have
shifted back to what is termed conventional practice of Canvas work
and Sculpture, but still with a focus and combined on some aspects of
Digital Media and at times with a performative element. It was around
this period I moved back to Runcorn. I had moved from Liverpool and
resided in London. In all places always proactive in Art initiatives
and further charity work. While living in London I not only wanted to
know about the Arts Market there, but the real people of the city and
went off for a time while still doing my own Professional Art
practice, but to work with organisations who dealt with disability
issues and another focus on young men of racial discrimination and
socially deprived areas.
As per typical of me I wanted to see
and experience all sides of the city, as the Arts Market is quite
insular dictated more by the Upper Classes in a lot of ways. I have
not ever quite understood the enigma of this where Art as a commodity
becomes the impetus of the elite and yet Art itself is a cultural
product in time and place and culture is something that people in the
masses define themselves. So, culture really comes from the ground up
and not the other way around in society. However, as a commodity it
the upper echelons that like to assume and dictate of it. That to me
is contradiction in terms to what Art means to me.
London I had to leave and no choice,
but to and this the reason back in Runcorn where I grew up. This was
due to the scandal that erupted to do with in part historical
institutionalised child abuse. That itself is complicated and when I
found out it broke my heart and for my own safety I could not stay in
the city. In private I cried my eyes out to the truths of what goes
on. That was 2012 and since then back in Runcorn. It was after this I
went out to research and found many people legally campaigning on
this issue and the trauma of what I discovered in London about
long-standing systematic child abuse was itself not isolated to one
place and nor national, but an international problem with roots back
to officialdom itself.
I have since myself and others similar
legally campaigned on this subject and other issues that connect to
it. I have at least sincerely tried and done morally, ethically and
legally the correct thing, but this is something in itself that is so
extensive that needs more people to support it and indeed groups and
institutions with capacity to fully confront it and make it stop.
This is a subject again I feel utterly strongly about and when I
discovered it my heart sank to the pit of my stomach. For daring to
speak out and legally campaign myself it has impacted on my
Professional Art practice in terms of some illicit whom have tried to
unlawfully blacklist me. I do not regret taking the stance I did to
legally campaign and would do the same again. I at least keep my
integrity and dignity intact. I have tried and bothered. That to some
may be deemed worthless and irrelevant, but to me it matters. The
Arts Market due to the nature of it will skirt this subject.
In terms of my Art practice, I have
continued and shifted back to Canvas work, as noted, but still with a
twist at times to Performative and Digital Media. It is at the end of
the day my Profession and it is something I will always do. I have
worked in the Arts Market now many decades and creativity featured in
my life since a child anyway in one way or another. From one moment
in my Art career described by those of the institutions as up and
coming to then be deemed less than for daring to speak out on other
issues as I have. I have no regrets, as noted, as it is life itself
to me that matters more and the rights of people, particular those
groups in society that are innocent, vulnerable and if not more so
than any other children. Even though in my own Art career I have done
many diverse themes and at times some perceived as controversial, as
a woman I actually hold very strong and conventional values to
family, children and similar. There is life and then there is Art and
is not Art merely an emulation of life itself. So, certainly on that
premise alone priority must be to life itself. While Art itself can
prove as a positive tool and simply a means to be cathartic at times.
Interviewer: What are your future plans
with Art and life?
Artist: For the moment I am based in
Runcorn, as this is where those I care about are. I have a priority
to them, as they have always been there for me. Even though to a
larger proportion of my adult life I have been off doing my own thing
in the Arts. I am now 50 years old and regardless of age still do my
Art and many projects underway. I still can not sit still. Same as a
child. Same as a woman. I am already underway planning for 2019
projects and initiatives I want to set in place 2020 and onward.
In terms of my campaigning that itself
will shift to support more collective initiatives, as one woman on
her own can not over turn what has transgressed on many issues.
Although always the same. Not afraid to confront, dive in the deep
end, take the bull by the horns. Even though I had my recluse period
in my twenties still I get itchy feet and restless always wanting to
up and go. I know myself implicitly and I know as I get older and
life circumstance to change, as it invariably does, I will up and go
again. I know me. I know what I am like. I have no intentions of
remaining in this country and when I make my final decision and to
retirement years I will choose somewhere and be off like a bullet not
to look back. Always my intentions to retire elsewhere.
In life I have been referred to as many
things. Even called an enigma and paradox. That is usually by the
type whom do not know me and make assumptions. To those whom do know
me for all my attributes I am simply Gaynor or Gabbie to my oldest of
family and friends. I can be everything from shy and quiet all the
way through to gregarious, forthright, absolutely defiant and
fearless. I suppose it depends on the circumstance and what traits
people pull out of me really. Generally though I like my life serene
and to merely either spend time with family or friends or to my Art
practice and that itself is cathartic, as when in creative process
just focused and concentrated on that.
Someone asked me many years ago what do
I fear? I replied I am scared of nothing and terrified of everything.
That itself is like a double edged sword. A paradox of kinds. Same as
my strengths and weakness. One and the same. I learned that attribute
in myself makes it hard for a lot of people difficult to read me. Not
only of that, but when apprehensive I will not show it if I can help
it, but sit present a very composed demeanour. In someways it
reflects in my Art too. On the surface it appears one thing, but when
analysed with objective eyes it is realised more there than not.
Other questions posed to me by some what would I die for? Without a
second thought and instinctively replied all I love and care about.
My family. I have always stood to principle and not ever fickle and
neither a coward and nor a hypocrite. Some think me irrational, as I
have known at times in life if I take a stance on certain subjects it
would impact on me professionally. I would still do the same and did
and have and if not more so on the legal campaigns I have endeavoured
these many years on children's issues.
The hunger for life is a huge drive in
me. One that compels me along and a sense of urgency to always be
doing something constructive and positive. So, as for future plans of
Art and life that is already very much in the making by me. I do not
wait for any to give me opportunities. I go out and make it myself. I
learned very young to rely on myself to push forward and still do.
Now it is second nature and really the only thing I know how to do.
Even though I have had the unconditional support of my family if ever
needed, it is not one would rely on. That duly to reasons as I love
them and to me it is about me dealing with my life and my
responsibility. For 2019 I am reducing the projects down and
specifically concentrate on main pieces I want to research and
produce. More with a centralised focus to what inspires me and
passionate about. I do not stop for anything. Always pushing forward.
Relentless.
Due to the stance I took to legally
campaign on child abuse it not only impacted on my Professional Art
activities and some to choose to ostracise me, but along the way some
people whom asserted to be friends and to their own implications of
certain ones said they could not fraternise with me anymore and too
scared to campaign themselves. So, I got abandoned by these types and
even people whom I did not abandon when they needed help. They chose
to do so with me though. It still did not stop me campaigning on
child abuse or the other subjects I have. If any person was ever a
friend they would not have turned their backs on me simply for me
doing the correct thing. Albeit all this I still pushed forward with
my Arts and always will. As said, I have no regrets making the
decisions I have in life. If I had chose like others have to be
silent then that would make me complicit and I was too profoundly
upset to find out the truth of children hurt. I could not remain
quiet. My conscience would not permit me and to be silent would only
condone it. I just could not. These days I just do not care what any
of think of me. I have done the correct thing and for doing so paid a
price that should not be paid, as I have been threatened and
undermined for daring to speak out. I am not alone in that. Many of
the campaigners experience similar.
Things happen for reasons and sometimes
those reasons are not apparent in the immediacy, but once all is said
and done and reflecting on much to aftermath a person learns it all
makes perfect sense in the end and indeed why I am as I am and I will
not change. As much as I adore pursuing Art I will always hold to
principle and try and do the correct thing. Even knowing the
consequence it brings in a world that is itself not all a bed of
roses. Yet, to me what matters are those implicit moments of utmost
contentment and usually with those I love and that puts everything
into perspective and any painful experiences dissipate to the
shadows. It is simply life to me and getting on with it and my Art is
merely part of it and indeed if I have campaign then that as well.
Art is something to express what is all about.
Interviewer: What do you want to be
remembered for?
Artist: Now at fifty years old I do not
care if I am not ever remembered. Why would I? I will be long gone
and that alone makes it irrelevant to me to even contemplate such
assumptions.
Interviewer: What advice would you give
any young Artists?
Artist: It depends what they want from
Art and life. Some seek the satisfaction it brings. Others primarily
want the assumed life style, fame and money. I would say be realistic
and know what you are getting into, as even now in this day and age
it is still a very fickle and tenuous market due to the greater
persuasion of the elite and where the likes are corruption not far
behind. I regret nothing I have done. Even at times knowing decisions
I made like legally campaigning on child abuse would come with
consequence and impact on my Professional Art career. I still do not
regret it and I would do so again. People need to be eyes wide open
and to understand not only the positive opportunities, but the
pitfalls as well and above all else stay true to themselves. Many
years ago I met a woman by accident going around the Art exhibitions.
We got talking and she explained to me the biggest mistake a lot of
Professional Artists do is to believe in their own bullshit or the
myths media in the Arts Market generate about an Artist. She was from
New Zealand and said she was an Artist and I never got her name, but
what she said made absolute sense.
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